“We Should Be Ashamed”


(c) 2009 by Vindix
In this article I’m going to be a bit hard on those who’ve accepted and support the US government in it’s actions toward Muslims, Arabs and Iranians, so a bit of advance warning seems appropriate. When the consequences of putting entire nations, cultures and ethnic groups through the meat grinder demonstrate that they are being reduced to the equivalent of what Lavrenty Beria, ex secret police chief of the Soviet Union, called “(concentration)camp dust”, it seems there are few diplomatic ways to characterize the traits which lead to the current atrocities being perpetrated by those who set themselves up as representing the interests of the American people.
In a recent Forbes article, mention was made of several recent polls conducted by mainstream media venues like CNN, ABC, the Washington Post, showing that around half of all Americans would support the use of torture against suspected terrorists in order to gain important information, presumably about planned or pending attacks, which would prevent an event like 9/11. Leaving aside the issue of whose interests are served by these polls, I think it is a clear evidence of the complete and absolute moral and ethical bankrupty of this nation as well as a warning to those of us who find torture absolutely reprehensible and uncalled for in any circumstance.
What this works out to be, in practice, is open season on those who threaten the financial or territorial ambitions of the existing powers-that-be.. Witness Iraq. A nation which had nothing to do with 9/11 was and is being put through the meat grinder because it was considered to be in some way responsible. And when evidence of this was unforthcoming, then torture was used-on innocent people, approved by those who KNEW they were innocent- in order to find a connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. 
There used to be a time when sympathy for the underdog was a trait publicized as well as valued by most Americans. And this was to a degree influential in the behavior, actions, demonstrations of those who valued the ideal of equal justice and opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, class or color. Justice for all, regardless of whether they lived in the South, in Nazi occupied Europe or behind the Iron Curtain. What makes the difference between torture practiced by totalitarian regimes of the 20th century and that committed by the United States Government? Is it in the goals it seeks to accomplish? How is attacking and occupying Iraq, a nation which neither attacked nor threatened us, any different than what Germany did to Poland in 1939?
What will be the results, long term, upon us, citizens of these United States, when those who have grown accustomed to torturing those, overseas, who an unkind Fate has placed in their power, return to civilian life and fill positions of trust in law enforcement? Do those who say torture is justified care to think that far ahead? What was considered fine and proper for a suspect of terror, overseas, may well be on the way to be considered par for the course for Americans accused of the slightest crimes. We already have foreiture laws in place, laws that were at one time considered by Americans to be too harsh for suspects during the Nuremberg war crimes trials. What happen when those accused of victimless crimes are not only seen as a source of income, but also routinely subjected to the sort of treatment which those unlucky to run afoul of the US government, say, in Guantanamo or secret CIA prisons, now experience?
Leaving aside even the questions of how accurate is information obtained from torture and what does allowing this sort of behavior signify for the future of the United States, I’d like to ask what will the practice of and aquiescence in torture accomplish for those who order, commit and go along with such practices? Alexander Solzhenitsyn, writing about the torturers of his nation, a nation, I might add, in spirit not now far removed from our own, said that the torturers were being punished more severely than anyone else because they were moving downward from humanity. That their practice of evil was putting them at risk of severe damage to that which made them human. And, that good conditions, safety, pleasant circumstances were nice things to have, but not at the risk of losing one’s human countenance.
Another issue on this poll which nobody seems to want to address nor make clear is: who defines a “suspected terrorist”?
Is he or she always a foreigner, always a Muslim, an Iranian, an Arab? Why are such terrorists always of such backgrounds? Might this have anything to do with the geopolitical goals of one or two countries?
Or the political sympathies of those who run and control the larger sources of information from which most Americans get their news and thus their image of the world outside their borders?
I think it’s high time to ask ourselves, as Americans, what our government is doing in our name, and why. What do you call people who accept information without question? What is the term for those who gratuitously attack those weaker than themselves? And what can you call it when one allows oneself to be intimidated by others? Unless we can manage to somehow stop the evils being committed under our name and with our approval, the rest of the world will be fully justified in holding the American people, nation, and culture fully accountable for the afflictions and harm visited upon the innocent and defenceless. I hope it won’t ever come to that.

(c) 2009 by Vindix

  1. #1 by Big M on June 7, 2009 - 5:26 pm

    I fully agree that we should torture the people who knew about the 9/11 attacks. That would be numerous people in the Bush administration, Mossad and the CIA. Let’s roll.

  2. #2 by al on June 7, 2009 - 5:43 pm

    Well, if you want to be ashamed, go right ahead. I;m NOT. The fact is, BOTH sides are wrong. Both sides are prisoners of their religions. Both sides abouse people different from them.

    You’d think, being in the *”21’st century”- it’d be different, heh?

    Thank the Great SPirit, I”M out of the whole craziness of religon.

  3. #3 by Ruth Bernstein on June 8, 2009 - 10:41 pm

    “In a recent Forbes article, mention was made of several recent polls conducted by mainstream media venues like CNN, ABC, the Washington Post, showing that around half of all Americans would support the use of torture against suspected terrorists in order to gain important information…I think [this] is clear evidence of the complete and absolute moral and ethical bankrupty of this nation as well as a warning to those of us who find torture absolutely reprehensible and uncalled for in any circumstance.”

    I take exception to this comment and the moralizing tone in which it is written. Though it is true you have written an unusually interesting article — much to my chagrin and envy, I might add — you have no right to suggest that torture is intrinsically wrong.
    By doing so, you are giving legitimate state interrogators a guilt complex. This is morally inexcusable.

  4. #4 by Ruth Bernstein on June 8, 2009 - 11:11 pm

    Our rabbis keep telling us that Jews need not saddle themselves with the trappings of Christian morality. We have our own Jewish morality, Vindix, and this allows us much more wiggle room. Your squeamishness about torturing people probably stems from your indoctrination in Christianity — a religion we Jews are doing our best to destroy in America.

    In Israel we practise torture as a matter of policy, and we are quite open about it. The Palestinians are evil beasts. They have stolen the land G-d gave us. So why shouldn’t we torture them to teach them a lesson?

  5. #5 by Ruth Bernstein on June 8, 2009 - 11:13 pm

    It’s time you got a more nuanced and sophisticated view about torture, Vindix. This is the 21st century. Who do you think taught America its torture techniques at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo? Admit it: every American interrogator learnt the tricks of his trade from a Jew. Israeli interrogators are found all over the world from South America to Central Asia. Wherever there are CIA torture camps, there you will find an Israeli advisor freely offering his expertise.

    If it weren’t for us Jews, how would you Americans have learnt how to rip out human fingernails or thrust poles up bleeding anuses without actually killing the victims of your savagery? This is a rare skill, Vindix, learnt in the darkness of the night under malignant moons. Give credit where credit is due.

  6. #6 by Montecristo on June 9, 2009 - 10:03 am

    A thoughtful essay, Vindix, with many interesting points and worthy reflections. Pay no attention to our resident Psychopath, Ruth Bernstein, who continues to plague this website with her inane comments. This Jewish supremacist is all too typical of the the cruel and morally depraved minority that has now gained control of our country.

    America, America! why did you sell your soul to these beasts in human form?

  7. #7 by Xanadu on June 9, 2009 - 10:34 am

    VINDIX: “I think it’s high time to ask ourselves, as Americans, what our government is doing in our name, and why.”

    A good article, Vindix, but I do wish you could rid yourself of the foolish assumption — implicit in the comment above — that America is ruled by good and responsible politicians who have your interests at heart. The people who run America couldn’t care less what you think or what you want.

    It doesn’t matter a whit who you vote for: both parties are controlled by a Jewish cabal. Forty members of Congress are Jews. And AIPAC rules over both parties, Republican as well as Democrats, with a rod of iron.

    Abandon the childish notion, Vindix, that America is a democracy. This is what they say it is. In actual fact, America is a crypto-fascist state masquerading as a democracy.

  8. #8 by Xanadu on June 9, 2009 - 10:43 am

    Who runs America? — The Jewish elite, otherwise known as the Zionazis. All their best ideas have been stolen from the Nazis, as you can see for yourself in Palestine right now. Auschwitz has been replaced by Gaza, a concentration camp whose inhabitants can be killed off periodically whenever the Jew needs to boost his self-esteem a bit.

  9. #9 by Madame Butterfly on June 9, 2009 - 10:38 pm

    Ruth Bernstein says: “Our rabbis keep telling us that Jews need not saddle themselves with the trappings of Christian morality. We have our own Jewish morality, Vindix, and this allows us much more wiggle room.”

    As usual, Ruth is right. Read what Rabbi Manis Friedman has to say on this same question:

    “The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way. Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children.” And then he adds: “I don’t believe in Western morality. Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention.”

    Note that, dear reader. Christian morality is of “human invention”, but “Torah values” come straight from God. Yes, these Torah values allow you to “kill men, women and children” of other faiths and “destroy their holy sites.”

    How comforting.

    http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1091469.html

  10. #10 by rehmat1 on June 10, 2009 - 2:53 pm

    Personally, I feel that it’s waste of my time to dig into 9/11 mess to find out the real culprits – because the fact is that as the result of 9/11 – The Muslims became the Jews of the Europe in its Dark Age and Israel became the most trustworthy ally of the new Crusaders. The criminals have exonerated themselves via playing both ‘judges and the jury’ at the The 9/11 Commission charade. The Canadian Jewish academic, Henry Makow PhD, in an article titled The Jews’ ”Worst Enemy” is Now Ours wrote: “The events of 9/11 were another pogrom aimed at the American people, designed to make them forsake their freedom and wage a phoney ‘war of terror’. Just as in the Holocaust, Illuminati Jews were probably part of 9/11. The Jews’ worst enemy is now all of ours”.

    So why I am writing on this dead-end topic after eight years? Well, the truth is – the other day I happened to come across a story on ‘Beliefnet’, titled “Waiting for the Tenth Man”, written by Yitta Halberstam & Judith Leventhal. It was originally posted late 2002 – but then taken off the site. The story tells us how G-d of Talmud saved nine Jews being among the some 3000 Gentiles dead inside WTC on the morning of September 11, 2001……

    http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/911-waiting-for-the-tenth-man/

  11. #11 by Robertvnik on June 16, 2009 - 10:46 am

    Good article Vindix, how true it is the western world is allowing muslims to be persecuted based on phony ‘muslim terrorist attacts’. How easily led have the ruling elite found mankind to be. What the people who call themselves christians(majority anyway) are painfully unaware of is how these same zionist jews will turn their murderous intentions onto the christian world in the near future just as severely as onto the muslims now. Destroying the power of both religions through devastating war is surely a step soon to be taken. Wasn’t it Abert Pike of freemasonry history who stated that the third world war should be instigated to pit christians against muslims and so destroy both?
    And besides war there are also other ways to add to destructive misery.
    While I agree with your sentiments over unjust treatment of various muslims or their countries by so called christian America perhaps it is also fair to remember there are christians whose hearts are clean before God and who endevour to understand the truth whatever it may be. These people would not lift an unjust hand against their fellow man whatever race or creed etc and are the salt of the earth.
    rehmat1 I read the story of the 9 praying gentlemen but wonder how many other jews apart from them were saved from death on 911 because they did not turn up for work.

  12. #12 by Luath on June 21, 2009 - 10:45 am

    Yea, its all well and good to ask those questions now, but the time for asking them and any “introspection” has long since past, don’t you get that? The damage has already been done. Any “self-pity” or “nostalgic reminiscing of how america was” is pointless and insultng.
    This was not done by accident. This monstrosity isn;t some little boo-boo that “time will heal”. No, this has all the markings of an agenda that we have yet to figure out. And who has time what with the economy and all? Convenient timing, I’d say. This blot on our national soul will haunt our grandchildren, that is, if we get that far. When people talk about the former united states, it will be with that same look that people have when discussing germany and jews.

  13. #13 by Nicolae on June 22, 2009 - 6:48 am

    In 1492, Chemor, chief Rabbi of Spain, wrote to the Grand Sanhedrin, which had its seat in Constantinople, for advice, when a Spanish law threatened expulsion.2 This was the reply:

    ” Beloved brethren in Moses, we have received your letter in which you tell us of the anxieties and misfortunes which you are enduring. We are pierced by as great pain to hear it as yourselves.

    The advice of the Grand Satraps and Rabbis is the following:

    1. As for what you say that the King of Spain obliges you to become Christians: do it, since you cannot do otherwise.

    2. As for what you say about the command to despoil you of your property: make your sons merchants that they may despoil, little by little, the Christians of theirs.

    3. As for what you say about making attempts on your lives: make your sons doctors and apothecaries, that they may take away Christians’ lives.

    4. As for what you say of their destroying your synagogues: make your sons canons and clerics in order that they may destroy their churches. [Emphasis mine]

    5. As for the many other vexations you complain of: arrange that your sons become advocates and lawyers, and see that they always mix in affairs of State, that by putting Christians under your yoke you may dominate the world and be avenged on them.

    6. Do not swerve from this order that we give you, because you will find by experience that, humiliated as you are, you will reach the actuality of power.

    (Signed) PRINCE OF THE JEWS OF CONSTANTINOPLE.”

    2. The reply is found in the sixteenth century Spanish book, La Silva Curiosa, by Julio-Iniguez de Medrano (Paris, Orry, 1608), on pages 156 and 157, with the following explanation: “This letter following was found in the archives of Toledo by the Hermit of Salamanca, (while) searching the ancient records of the kingdoms of Spain; and, as it is expressive and remarkable, I wish to write it here.” — vide, photostat facing page 80.

    ~ The above was quoted from Waters Flowing Eastward by Paquita de Shishmareff, pp. 73-74

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