Jesus’ teachings about greed


By: Tarif Khalidi

IslamiCity

A man once accompanied Jesus, saying to him, “I want to be with you and be your companion.” They set forth and reached the bank of a river; where they sat down to eat. They had with them three loaves. They ate two loaves, and a third remained. Jesus then rose and went to the river to drink. When he returned, he did not find the third loaf, so he asked the man: “Who took the loaf?” “I do not know,” the man replied.

Jesus set forth once more with the man, and he saw a doe [a female deer] with two of her young. Jesus called one of the two, and it came to him. Jesus then slaughtered it, roasted some of it; and ate with his companion. Then he said to the young deer, “Rise, by God’s leave.” The deer rose and left. Jesus then turned to his companion and said, “I ask you in the name of Him who showed you this miracle, who took the loaf?” “I do not know,” the man replied.

The two of them then came to a body of water in a valley. Jesus took the man by the hand and they walked upon the water. When they had crossed over, Jesus said to him, “I ask you in the name of Him who showed you this miracle, who took the loaf?” “I do not know,” the man replied.

They then came to a waterless desert and sat down upon the ground. Jesus began to gather some earth and sand, and then said, “Turn to gold, by God’s leave,” and it did so. Jesus divided the gold into three portions and said, “A third for me, a third for you, and a third for whoever took the loaf.” The man said, “It was I who took the loaf.” Jesus said, “The gold is all yours.”

Jesus then left him. Two men came upon him [Jesus' companion] in the desert with the gold, and wanted to rob and kill him. He said to them, “Let us divide it into three portions among us, and send one of you to town to buy us some food to eat.” One of them was sent off, and then said to himself, “Why should I divide the gold with those two? Rather, I shall poison the food and have the gold to myself.” He went off and did so.

Meanwhile, the two who stayed behind said to each other, “Why should we give him a third of the gold? Instead, let us kill him when he returns and divide the money between the two of us.” When he returned, they killed him, ate the food, and died; The gold remained in the desert with the three men dead beside it. Jesus passed by, found them in that condition, and said to his companions, “This is the world. Beware of it.”

This story is excerpted from the book “The Muslim Jesus” by Tarif Khalidi. The book presents in English the largest collection of the sayings and stories of Jesus in Islamic literature.

Reference:

Abu Bakr ibn Abi al-Dunya (d. 281/894), Kitab Dilamm al-Dunya, in Mawsu’at Rasa’il, 2:49, excerpt no. 87. Cf. al-Ghazali, IIIya’, 3:267 (Asin, pp. 383-384, no. 54; Mansur, no. 136; Robson, pp. 97-99); al-Makki, Qut, 1:255 (Asin, pp. 387-388, no. 54 quater; Mansur, no. 26); al-Thriushi, Siraj, pp. 79-80; Ibn ‘Asakir, Sirat, p. 95, no. 82; al-Abshihi, al-Mustatraf 2:263-264 (Asin, p. 385, no. 54 his and pp. 386-387, no. 54 ter; slight variation).

  1. #1 by Doug on December 4, 2009 - 8:12 am

    Muhammad came into contact with a lot of Christians and I’m sure he heard a lot of stories concerning Jesus. I just can’t see Christ deer hunting though. I don’t know that they had Fluorescent Orange Safety Vests with Silver Stripes in the year of ’31’. But hey, we’re talking GOD here so he may have had a really nice Smith & Wesson 30-06 Spg. Realtree All Purpose Bolt Action Rifle/23″ Blue B. He might have had a pair of LL bean style hunting boots with rubber bottom chain link soles and leather uppers too. All things are possible with GOD.

  2. #2 by Arabia-Felix on December 4, 2009 - 4:05 pm

    Doug,

    Prophet Mohamed pbuh did not say what is written above.

    I can tell you one thing about him, he was NO
    story teller.

    He NEVER claimed that he brought a NEW RELIGION, he didn’t.

    He said he was sent to RESTORE the RELIGION of the father ABRAHAM.

    Islam is NOT a new religion introduced by Prophet Mohamed (pbuh), rather a RESTORATION of an OLD one that it’s MONOTHEISTIC massage was lost along the way.

  3. #3 by kenken on December 4, 2009 - 5:34 pm

    “Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.” (Quran 5:82)

    That was then, now and forever, But, if the Jews have the chance (which is impossible) to edit the Quran, as they did to Moses Book, they would replace the word “Jews” with “Muslims”, and “pagans” with “Christians”.

  4. #4 by kenken on December 4, 2009 - 8:30 pm

    I have heard this phrase “Muhammad came into contact with a lot of Christians and Jews”, from extremist Jews and Christians, too msny times, to discredit the Quran as a Revelation of Divine Well, and project Muhamed as a posture, and story teller. That is really is like trying to extinguish the sun’s light with their mouths, but that is laughable to those who studied the profile of Muhsmed and read the Quran.

    It is true that the above story is writen by early Muslims story tellers, and has nothing to do with Muhamed, but those story tellers based their writings on what the Quran says about Jesus Christ and His Mircles:

    “Then will the Lord say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit, so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and you breath into it and it become a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from violence to you when you did show them these clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic.'” (Quran 5:110)

    Of course the Lord repeted saying “by My leave” because the Quan tells that none of the prophets God sent is a divine creator;

    “Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how the Lord does make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! (Quran 5:75)
    ” And behold! the Creator (on Judjment Day) will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of the Creator.?” He will say: “Glory to You! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden.”(Quran 5:116)

  5. #5 by Jim on December 4, 2009 - 10:35 pm

    read this about jew greed: jew organized crime and recent “hate crime” in LA

    http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2009/12/lapd_view_of_israeli_orga.php

    LAPD view of Israeli organized crime
    Kevin Roderick • December 2 2009 10:28 AM
    Israeli organized crime activity in Los Angeles has gotten “a little bit worse” recently, LAPD terrorism chief Michael P. Downing told the Jerusalem Post this week on a visit in Tel Aviv. He also alluded to “a little bit of convergence between terrorism and organized crime.” But what was really interesting was Downing’s comment about that Oct. 29 shooting of two rabbis at Adat Yeshurun Valley Sephardic synagogue in North Hollywood, initially feared to be somehow terrorist or hate-related.

    After arriving at the synagogue, Downing quickly realized it was not a terrorist attack.
    “The two victims had been kneecapped. That’s not indicative of terrorism. It resembled a targeted, surgical strike,” said the deputy chief.

    “Within a few hours we were able to say that this was in no way linked to terror,” he added.

    “They were targeted as part of a stern warning linked to a criminal organization,” Downing said.

  6. #6 by Jalid on December 4, 2009 - 11:15 pm

    Doug!
    that was one hell of a post!
    lol

  7. #7 by anonymous on December 5, 2009 - 9:16 am

    thank you so very much for this

    I was just pondering lost books of christ today

    http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/matthias.html

    “Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds.
    When he finds, he will become astonished.
    When he becomes astonished, he will become king.
    And when he has become king, he will find rest.”

    “Basilides

    Basilides lived in Alexandria of Egypt during the turn of the first Century. He was a disciple of Glaucius who was himself a disciple of Peter the fisher. He was taught by Saturninus of Antioch in the Gnostic tradition of Simon Magus and received the teachings of Matthias, which were said to have been secretly given to Matthias by Jesus after the resurrection. Basilides was one of the earliest Gnostic writers and had a copious amount of literature ascribed to him, including many gospels, a psalm book, several odes, and an exegesis on the New Testament. Hebrew scriptures and the Pauline letters contributed the major influence on his writings. *Nearly all of them were lost in the destruction of the Library in Alexandria.* ”

    http://www.apostolicgnosis.org/greatsaints.html

    I will seek out this book and any others

    any more leads to hermetic/gnostic/christian books in Islam?

  8. #8 by Doug on December 5, 2009 - 7:37 pm

    Arabia-Felix,

    I am sure Muhammad knew some Christians and I’m sure he did hear the Gospel according to Jesus Christ. That is the only statement I made concerning Muhammad. My post surely illustrates my disbelief that Muhammad pbuh had anything to do with this particular story telling; therefore, we are on the same page. I just seem to have a flair for the absurd. I also find humor in many things. Muhammad, being a human, probably found humor in many things also. I’m sure you must find a little humor in our crazy world from time to time also.

    “And your smiling in the face of your brother is charity.”

  9. #9 by Arabia-Felix on December 5, 2009 - 7:52 pm

    Yeah Jalid, “hell of a post” :-).

    Whatever that means.

    Dear Anonymous,

    There NO stories in the Islamic faith, and by stories i mean
    detailed talk of an issue or person(s).

    MEASURED SPEACH is the CORE of the massage of Prophet Mohamed (pbuh). That measured speach was the one recited of the Qur’an,
    The masanger Mohamed (pbuh) spoke in MEASURED SPEACH as well.

    If you know Arabic language, you can see the Sophistication yet
    the SIMPLICITY of the Language he spoke with.

    It appealed equally to the Learned and the unlearned among men.

    There is ONE MAIN MASSAGE of ISLAM, rest is SECONDARY to that ONE massage, and that massage is MONOTHEISM.

    GNOSTICISM is contradictory to Islam, so it is Impossible to find in Islam literature speaking of it.
    Gnosticism is considered Herresy in Islam.

    But, i can refer to you to IMAM MAHAMMAD AL-GHAZALI.

    A man who will quench your thirst, an early Muslim Scholar.

    Check out these books if you can find them :

    -> IHY’A ULUM AL-DIN. translation- REVIAVAL OF RELIGIOUS SCIENCES

    -> TAHAFUT AL-FALASiFAH. — -INCOHERENCE OF THE PHILOSOPHERS.

    Those books are the closest you can find to addressing to your
    interest, i hope.

    Good luck.

  10. #10 by Baba on December 5, 2009 - 10:00 pm

    Is anyone good out there with math?

    Here is a math problem. If 2% of the population wants to kill 80% of the people (that are not part of the 2%), of the remaining population left, what percentage of the original 2% be after the kill?

    Thank you

    p.s. And what will be the ratio of the remaining peoples?

  11. #11 by kqy597 on December 5, 2009 - 10:52 pm

    “What is truth?” Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him. But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”

    They shouted back, “NO, NOT HIM! GIVE US BARABBAS!”

    http://bible.cc/john/18-40.htm

  12. #12 by Fr. John on December 5, 2009 - 10:59 pm

    Well.

    Clearly, this site is going to the dogs (literally).

    I have no patience with this sort of thing, in a land that never was fooled into believing a ‘sand ni**er’s’ tales had any validity. The Founding Fathers trounced the Barbary Pirates, and the clergy had no civilized words for them then… I think, after Fr. Hood, that neither should we.

    Surely, if the author of this site is a Christian, or even just a plain white Adamite (i.e., European) what purpose does it serve to put up here the arabic equivalent of talmudic tales about Christ, that are at best presumptive, and at worst, heretical? OR even to allow Hagarenes to cloud the air with their blasphemies?

    In Russia (r a former soviet satellite) recently, an Orthodox priest was killed (in his native land) because he was having success in converting Muslims to the ONLY authentic ‘religion of Abraham.’- i.e., Orthodox Christianity.

    I see no religion of ‘peace and tolerance’ at work in this scenario. The last time I looked, conversion to Islam is considered a foolish thing to do in the West…. in Araby, they can behead you for conversion to Christianity.

    Which is the more barbaric group to keep out of one’s native land? And why aren’t we sending them all to their theology of sand castles, anyway?

    note from me—-No patience? Well, that makes 2 of us, as I have no patience for bigots who don’t know their history. In the first case, your referring to Arabs as “Sand Niggers” is someting to which I take personal offense, as half my family (Christian) comes from the very region where Jesus Christ performed his first miracle. Next, the author of this piece was trying to show a side to Jesus that perhaps hasn’t been considered before, similar I suppose to the old ‘Footprints in the Sand” thing millions of Christians have on placards in their homes. You consider this heretical as well?

    As far as the rest and your assertion that Islam is not a ‘religion of peace’ based upon the fact that a Palestinian born and raised int eh US gunned down 13 people, as horrible as it is, it is just a drop int he bucket compared to the more than 1.5 million Iraqis that the “Christians” in the good ol’ USA murdered over the last 20 years.

    You are nothing but an ill-informed bigot and we have need of such creatures here. Perhaps you will find yourself more at home at one of the aryan nations/white supremacist sites.

  13. #13 by Arabia-Felix on December 6, 2009 - 5:32 am

    I am sure mr.Fr John has no clue about the Aryan “adamites”.

    Trust me when i tell you that i lived with them.

    I lived in a remote village in arctic Nordic land where the folks
    there had never seen a coloured person before me.

    Fr.John, sorry to BURST your Bubbles.

    Those guys do not know racism.

    Racism is introduced to the “adamites” by the jews,in reletively recent history.

    Your talk is very “self hating jewish”, sounds nothing like the “adamites”.

    In that remote village where i lived ,Village-urban legend had it, that a MULATO came to town, and all the women of the village were lining up in front of his house, to you know, “sleep”with him.

    That this Aryan superiority is invented by “self hating jews” can be seen in Miss.Ruth Bernistein’s comments and of course Holy wood and media take on it. Sadly it affected and believed
    by some clueless folks.

    BTW, first time when i entered the village, a man ran to me, all
    excited, with huge smile on his face.

    He asked if it is OK to shake his hand.

    To my suprise, i didn’t know shaking hands was not part of their
    old culture, it is very knew phenomenon to shake hands with people in there, they are just learning to practice it.

    I told him indeed you can, and shook his hand.

    He told me that i was the first coloured person he had ever seen in his life.That he had only seen them on TV.
    So, i said to him, how about a hug?

    There we hugged.

    trust me when i tell you that ORTHODOX christianity is equal to
    Judaism in the protestant world of your “adamites”.

    I know the guys you are impersonating, i know them in their originality, before they are influenced by TV and hollywood.

    So, hold your horses, your language is familiar, so jewish.

    I recommend you to watch a movie called THE THIRTEEN WARIOR.
    By Antonio Panderas.

    There you can get a hint of what i am talking about.

    And never admit to those guys that you a re an Orthodox christian.

  14. #14 by kenken on December 6, 2009 - 7:12 am

    Mark
    You are making It too hard for Rabbi Jewhn. It is not easy any more in this age of recovering from the disease of Zionisim all over the globe, to find a pleasing site to intrude in as he does here.

    After the Zionist crimes in Gaza, infront of the whole world, millions of people start to recognize propaganda from Truth.

    For those who get paid by the Zionist internet war againt the truth, soon will get broke. They did fool some for a while, but they can not fool the masses for long.

  15. #15 by kenken on December 6, 2009 - 8:24 am

    Back to Arabia-Felix, and anonymous;
    With all respect to Arabia-Felix, whom I wish to have small part of his scholastic knowledge
    about Islam, I found the one main message of Islam is how to pass this trial on earth successfully, and be qualified to be closer to the Creator in the next level of Creation, where one is freed form this probational earthly trials of pain, suffering and death, where none of that exist in the New Earth near the Eternal. “One day the earth will be changed to a different earth, and so will be the heavens,….As We did it first will do it again.”

    Monotheism in Islam is very impotant mean to that goal, not beacuse the Creator is jealous or afraid of other power in His univers, but because serving two masters, let alone three or foure, is not just confusing, it steals the peace of mind which is very importat to reach that endeavor;

    “The Creator puts forth a Parable; a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging only to one master: are those two men equal in comparison?….” (Quran 39:29)

    I, some times think if the Creator reduced the Quran to just four short verses only, that would be enough for those who have brain:

    “By the Soul, and Him Who perfected it. And enlightened it as to its wrong and its right;― Truly succeeds that purifies it. And he fails that corrupts it!.(Quran91:7-10)

  16. #16 by The Prodigal Son on December 6, 2009 - 12:34 pm

    Mark,

    Right on !

    Christ came to all nations… how a man who professes to be a Christian can be a racist is beyond me.

    Fr.(?) John… Stormfront called… you’re late for the cross burning.

    To Baba,

    They would go from being 2% to being approximately 12%…

    The ratio would then be approximately 1:9. 1 ‘Jew’ to 9 ‘Gentiles’.

    (Jew and Gentile both being made up words which have been assigned a false translation…

    See, ‘Yehudim’ means Judahite, not ‘Jew’… and ‘Goyim’ means – not ‘Gentile': as in non-Jew… ‘Goyim’ actually translates closer to ‘NATIONS’.)

    A morbid question about the percentages, but there ya go ! Moving along…

    With regards to the ‘story’ about Jesus… I think it carries what is basically a good message.

    I could almost picture Christ having taught such a lesson… except He may have had them get very sick instead of dying and perhaps losing the money to more bandits, and instead of robbing AND killing the man… maybe he just got robbed.

    Anyhow, the only thing I took any issue to was the title of ‘The Muslim Jesus’…

    Surely we can agree that Jesus was not a Muslim, can’t we ?

  17. #17 by Doug on December 6, 2009 - 9:32 pm

    Fr. John,

    Your Christain/Zionist religion has no room for compassion. That is clear. Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, you have been duped. Who exactly do you think Jesus was calling The children Of Satan? I’ll bet you even use the Scofield Bible…No? You should read this post perhaps:

    http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/a-little-fun-with-the-bible/

  18. #18 by Doug on December 7, 2009 - 3:54 am

    BABA,
    I whipped out my calculator and worked your math problem. Near as I can tell, the ratio will be 65% total left of the people not of the 2% and .00001% left of the original 2% that intended to do the killing. So, as we can see, there will be only a Remnant left.
    Of the 80% that lost the 15%, the 10% are the ones that forgot to buy extra clips. The other 5% that were lost just couldn’t stop drinking the Koolaid.

  19. #19 by jgalindes on December 7, 2009 - 1:24 pm

    Dear Mark and all the other participants,

    First I’ll like to congratulate you for the Ugly Truth website and Podcast,especially the one with Br.Nathanael.

    Second,while I follow your work here fromm the beginning of 2009,I’ve never seen a comment by this “Fr.John” here before,might be I’m mistaken.

    He runs a website ,that may be you find some useless time to fill with perusing…:

    http://www.thewhitechrist.wordpress.com/

    I don’t need to go into obvious details,his POV is absolutely clear there.

    His interpretation of the Gospel just for the “white pure Israel heritage” as he believes he himself belongs to,as a ‘pure Celt’,white,rosy cheek human being,etc is ,outrageous in itself.

    He,easily distorts,twist and deform Scripture to justify his bigoted philosophy.

    Colored people is,as the Jews say,quasy human,but he actually prefers to use the term apes or simian to describe those who unproperly were converted to the Christian faith,MOSTLY BY PIOUS,MANY TIMES SELF-SACRYFYING ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS (we are almost completely unaware of the deep hostility of Orthodox Christianity towards Roman Catholicism,here in South America).

    He probably will say that’s because our Roman prists hide the truth from us,of the several heresies (regarding the second person in the Trinity,and other doctrinal details,and very conspicuously,the assumption of Pope dogmatic inerrancy and supreme head of the Church).

    Anyway ,months ago,in Br.Nathanael’s website,realzionistnews,a greek participant thoroughly destroyed his purposed arguments,based on shameful alteration of the greek texts,which you may read in the following link:

    http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=400

    Comment :
    May 17, 2009 @ 11:41 am

    With much friendly and Christian love to all of you(Muslims alike,cause I do respect your suffering(Palestinians et al.) and
    courage,and I believe in Jesus Christ message of love and redemption equally valid for all of us who accepts his divinity.

  20. #20 by thewhitechrist on December 7, 2009 - 6:14 pm

    Thanks for clarifying your positions, vis a vis Americans of the first 175 years of this country’s existence, and your desire to make it a multicultural, polyglot Babel, contrary to the witness of Holy Scripture and the praxis of 1900 years of Christendom.

    It was not ‘my use’ of the terms, thank you. I was merely saying what MANY MANY Americans are saying, after Fr. Hood.

    I ABHOR the US Military, I DESPISE the wars in the Middle East, as they have NO rationale in the ‘Monroe Doctrine’ which existed until roughly 1939.

    YOu call me ‘rabbinic’ and ‘jewish’. Sorry, I find the Khazars (a TURKIC tribe) to be just as loathsome as most of the jihadists I have read about in the ‘Jewsmedia.’

    Jgalindes is a Romanist whore (or pimp, I don’t know his/her sex) who cares little for either a) biblical Christianity, or b) Orthodoxy.

    As to a ‘Greek’ participant ‘deconstructing’ anything, the Greeks have long been in the pocket of the NWO types, ever since Meletios MEtaxakis of unhappy memory. Fr. Seraphim Rose said, “In the End, ALL the Churches will serve Antichrist.” Not individual clerics here and there, but all the ORGANIZED CHURCHES. And Christ and St. John said the Jewish/Khazarian/Talmudics WERE the antichrists of his age. I thought this was a Christian site, I see it only as a arabic apologist site. I now can purge it from my reading material of edifying sites….

    Thanks.

  21. #21 by Arabia-Felix on December 7, 2009 - 7:12 pm

    jgalindes,

    Thank you for apologising on behalf of fake Orthodox Fr.John,
    You did not need to to do that; his ilk is everywhere.

    Kindly,do not misunderstand my response to him as well.

    I did not mean ill towards Orthodox christianity when i said
    what i said. I just wanted to show the man, that he doesn’t
    even know the people he is trying to impersonate ie the innocent Aryan nation. He didn’t do his homework well.

    About coloured people, i assumed he meant by that any person with a hint of a colour. and if that is what is meant by it, you can bet Jesus was coloured; definately didn’t look like one of the Scandinavians.

    THE PRODIGAL SON,

    You had disagreed to “Muslim Jesus” phrase.
    You ask if we can agree on the fact Jesus wasn’t a Muslim.

    The word Muslim, to you and to the outsiders is for those who accepted Islam as a religion.

    RIGHT, that is correct definition.

    But, what is ISLAM? Is it a name of a particular religion,
    that was revealed to Prophet Mohamad ONLY??. NO, it isn’t.

    The meaning of the word ISLAM is submission to GOD,
    the CREATOR of all.

    In Islamic teaching, everything, or being is SUBMISSIVE to God,
    the creator of the Universe,everything, including Stars and stones,All that is CREATED is submissive to God,EXCEPT MAN.

    Man, by accepting the responsibility of carrying the SOUL from
    God (of which all other creatures rejected to carry that burden);
    man by accepting that soul,unlike ALL other creation is given- the CHOICE, to eaither SUBMIT to the creator or REFUSE to do so.

    Muslim in the Qur’an was refered to Prophet the Father Abrahim,
    the greatest submitter of all.

    The Qur’an teaches that, to know God the Creator of all, the ONE
    and the ONLY, is Innate knowledge. A religion can only enhance
    that innate Knowledge of which comes from the Instinct.

    That is why the Qur’an calls KAFIR (he who unreveals)to the persons who deny the existance of God,in place of Infidel or
    other names used by other religions.

    Reason the Qur’an calls them Kafirs, those who hide,those who unreveal is, that Islam teaches that ALL beangs know that there
    is GOD, ONE and ONLY, the creator of all.

    All know it innately, some reveal it and other SUPRESS it.

    In Islamic poit of view, Jesus is a Created by God the Most high,
    the >Creator; and he was a SUBMISSIVE, therfore a MUSLIM.

    I hope that clarifies a bit.

  22. #22 by Jalid on December 7, 2009 - 10:01 pm

    Greetings Fr Jhon,
    I have a question
    If Muhammad was a sand nigger then Wasnt Jesus one too? and Abraham? and Moses? and all prophets?
    they all came from the same place. Jesus was from Galilea which is slightly less “sandy”
    :)

    they were also all towel heads!
    So what is your point?
    regarding religion of peace or not
    IT WASNT THE Muslims WHO

    WENT killing so many innocent civilians all over the place,
    People who went
    Killing people in Hiroshima
    Killing people in Nagasaki
    Killing people in Vietnam
    Killing people in Korea
    Killing the natives
    Killing the Blacks
    Killing the Iraqis
    Killing the Iraqis again
    Killing the Afghanis
    Killing the Chileans
    Killing the Argentineans
    Killing the Germans
    Killing the Mexicans
    Killing the Cubans
    Killing the Salvadorians
    Killing the Nicaraguans
    Killing the Irish
    Killing the Pakistanis
    Killing the Libyans
    Killing the cubans
    Killing the Algerians
    Killing the Lebanese
    Killing the Palestinians
    Killing the Palestinians
    Killing the Palestinians
    Killing the Palestinians
    Killing the Palestinians
    Killing stupid Americans

    Killing the Africans within Africa

    And finally
    Killing the polar bear babies so Hebrew and Anglo Saxon cunts can wear their still bleeding skin sewed by a brilliant Jew homosexual tailor
    to a New York gala night at the Apollo?

    si o no?
    si o no?

  23. #23 by kenken on December 8, 2009 - 12:59 am

    To The Prodigal Son.
    Your math matches mine, but, ‘The Muslim Jesus’…needs some explanation;
    Since Islam came some 500 years after Jesus Christ, you are right to ask; “Surely we can agree that Jesus was not a Muslim, can’t we ?”
    According to the Quran, The Creator did not assign names to the believers in His Messengers, because He is One, and His Message is the same to all His Prophets and Messengers, since Adam to Jesus and ending with Muhammed, with little amendments to meet the time, and that Message is to SUBMIT, or surrender your well to His Guidance alone, and be saved from confusion and delusion of submitting to more than one master. But the believers in later times called themselve Jews and Christians.
    Therefor, the Creator in the Quran named the believers Muslims;
    ” ….And It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation)… (22:78)
    So, as you see Islam is a derivative name from the verb “aslama” to”SUBMIT”, or to surrender, and not from a noun “Juda” or “Christ” and that why Muslims resent being called “Muhammedian” and they believe that all True Jews and Christians are Muslims. and the best of them all is ‘The Muslim Jesus’;’The Submitter to the Well of the One, and the only One Deity Creator and Designer of all, from the Univers to the sperm of the fly.

  24. #24 by anonymous on December 8, 2009 - 3:13 am

    thank you Arabia-Felix

    I will look into what you have shared. I am also having trouble finding some things because of different spellings of english translations of arabic. I was trying to find more on the islamic perspective of Idris/Idrees, there are books referenced here I cannot find :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Enoch

    (External links
    Hadhrat Idrees
    The Story of Idrees (Enoch) )

    I had asked about gnostics in Islam, maybe I should have been more specific about the Sabians, Sufis (Sabi, son of Idris?,(Enoch/Hermes)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians#Sabians_of_Harran

    “Sabians of Harran
    Based upon a book called The Nabataean Agriculture which Maimonides translated, Maimonides’ “Guide for the Perplexed” describes the Gnostic Sabians (a.k.a. Sabi’ah Mushrikun) in quite some detail. The Saabi`ah Mushrikun were a Yazidan group who were questioned by the caliph al-Ma’mún of Baghdad in 830 CE, according to Abú-Jusúf Abshaa’al-Qathíí, about what protected religion they belonged to. Not being Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Magian, the caliph told them they were infidels and would have to become Muslims or adherents of one of the other religions recognized by the Qu’ran by the time he returned from his campaign against the Byzantines or he would kill them.[29] The Yazidans (Harranians) consulted with a lawyer who suggested that they find their answer in the Qu’ran II.59 which made it clear that Sabians were tolerated. It was unknown what was intended by Sabian and so they took the name.[30].

    The newly dubbed Harranian Sabians took Hermes Trismegistus as their prophet, and the Corpus Hermeticum as their sacred text, being a group of Hermeticists. Validation of Hermes as a prophet comes from his identification as Idris (ie. Enoch) in suras 19.57 and 21.85.[31]

    The Harranian Sabians played a vital role in Baghdad and the rest of the Arab world from 856 until about 1050; playing the role of the main source of Greek philosophy and science as well as shaping the intellectual life. The most prominent of the Harranian Sabians was Thabit ibn Qurra.[31]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetism_and_other_religions#Islam

    “In 830 CE, a group of Hermetic pagans in Harran needed protection by being either Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Sabian. They took the Corpus Hermeticum as their scripture and Hermes Trismegistus as their prophet, and decided to call themselves Sabians. As no one was sure what the Qur’an meant by Sabian, they were accepted as being such having a monotheistic scripture and a prophet. This group played a large role in Baghdad’s intellectual life from 856 – 1050.[41]

    The most famous of the Harranian Sabians was Thabit ibn Qurra, who made great advances in alchemy, astronomy, and mathematics, citing his paganism as the reason for his ability.[42] They however began to decline in 950 CE when the caliph imposed strict Islamic orthodoxy forcing explicit Hermetism underground and forcing other Hermetists to change Hermes to Mohammed. It is further theorized that this may also have lead to the beginning of Sufism, mystical Islam, as their first great order also appeared in that year.[43]

    The author Antoine Faivre theorizes that Hermes Trismegistus is mentioned in the Qu’ran as well, under the name of Idris. (19:56, 19:57) Idris is also identified with Enoch,[44] who is also identified with Hermes.[45] He is called “Thrice Wise,” relating to Hermes’ title “Thrice Great.”[46]”

    “The Sufi and the Gnosis of Islam”

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/10039145/The-Sufi-and-the-Gnosis-of-Islam

  25. #25 by Jalid on December 8, 2009 - 3:02 pm

    I think Fr Jhon is misunderstood. he needs to be given a voice. and a chance to defend himself. It is unfair to give him the cold shoulder. We muslims also have mercy. dont listen to them, John. Lets go have a beer. That Guy Arabia Felix is from Saudi Arabia they are killing the houthi children. Bastards.

  26. #26 by Jalid on December 8, 2009 - 3:03 pm

    George Habash, (PFLP) Naef Hawatmeh, (DFLP), Marseel Khalifeh, Hanan Ashrawi are All Christians who amongst many others have never contributed to the killing of our own people
    Their lives were and are dedicated in love to Palestine and have given EVERYTHING possible within their dimensional selves to free my people!

    Meanwhile others who have the responsibility to free my people, the responsibility to help my people, the responsibility to aid by all means my people the responsibility to form armies of liberation to free my people,
    Are doing exactly the opposite; they are enslaving my people; they are helping the Jew monsters to destroy every means of Arab Infifada, they are condoning and abetting and protecting and are involved in a homosexual like love with the invading !mutants

    They drink whisky using the Yamammat of little children as glasses, with them!
    They snort specially delivered Colombian cocaine up their fake Muslim noses, with them!
    They play Texas holdem an seven cards stud using baby names as antes, With them!;
    They abuse girls and screw young boys, with them.!
    They deserve the worse of deaths,
    Because in addition to the charges of murder, mass murder, conspiracy and Machiavellian maneuvering to slow down our nationalistic revolution they also face the worse of
    Castigation for they have committed:

    TREASON!

    Their feet should be tied to the back bender of an American hammer truck then dragged thru the street of a pretty oh so pretty Jerusalemite morning by every alley including Via Dolorosa until the shredding stones leave nothing in their putrefactive corrupt beings!

    Here is a list of a few Judases of the times!

  27. #27 by Jalid on December 8, 2009 - 3:04 pm

    King Abdullah bin abdul Aziz
    treason

    King Abdullah bin al Hussein!
    treason

    King Mohamed the sixth bin Hassan of Morroco!
    treason

    Hosni Mubarak!
    treason

  28. #28 by Jalid on December 8, 2009 - 3:04 pm

    King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz

    TREASON!

    Danced next to
    Sword holding George Bush
    at the exact same time as one of his soldiers
    Innocent Cross, hanging from his golden necklace, scratched
    Abir´s pure innocent back
    as he raped her from behind in her humble Baghdad home!

    Lord please! Burn all of my enemieeeees ….
    Lord please!
    Burn them in hell at a thousand degreeeees!

    King Abdullah bin Al Hussein of Jordan
    TREASON!

    One who claims to enjoy lineage from Ahlul Bait
    While selling every piece of real state property in his Fake kingdom
    spending the revenues in Monaco
    And Las Vegas casinos
    A Kingdom
    Created by the father of
    His mother
    An Anglo Saxon witch!

    Lord please! Burn all of my enemieeeees ….
    Lord please!
    Burn them in hell at a thousand degreeeees!

    King Mohamed the sixth!
    TREASON!

    Killer of Polisarios and true religious soldiers of Islam
    To satisfy the un quenching blood thirst
    Of his European masters
    Who visit Casablanca to
    rape his young and pretty girls
    While smoking his chocolate hash!

    Lord please! Burn all of my enemieeeees ….
    Lord please!
    Burn them in hell at a thousand degreeeees!

    Hosni Mubarak!
    TREASON!

    Who invites Netanyahu
    To his Nile shores palace in the middle of Ramadan
    To enjoy fasting breaking meals
    While the true Muslims in Gaza break it with a glass
    of goat milk and a a single fig
    Rolled in a Tabun made piece of Bread!

    Lord please! Burn all of my enemieeeees ….
    Lord please!
    Burn them in hell at a thousand degreeeees

    Lord please honour the honourable
    And punish here in this life and in the after life the
    Traitor Muslim Judas who sold
    Honour dignity and pride
    For less than what
    Judas to Jesus did!

  29. #29 by Jalid on December 8, 2009 - 3:48 pm

    Friends!
    Friends you dont understand our anger at having to fight the biggest monster humanity has ever seen. You dont understand that we, as weak as we are, confront the exact same killers of a Celestially sent Being whom some called God himself for he was so full of Love and Compassion. He was a Pigeon delivering Hope to Humanity. We, Palestinians confront them today, and we have been empowered by the breath of that Celestial Spirit into resisting this Blind Angry Dragon of such spectacular strength.
    With tears in my eyes and on my knees and bowing to you in obedience, I ask you, oh Lord Omnipotent, Creator of Heavens and Earth and Light of the Universe, Alfa and Omega, dont abandon us!
    Give us strength! Give us perseverance like you promptly did to the Warrior Saint who fought the mad dragoon. Guide us, oh Lord thru this valley of Death into Victory and Peace….
    You are all there is, Master; you can see the hearts of the wicked. Blind them Oh Dear God. Hold us!

    –Jalid, I DO understand the rage, which is why I let you say what you want to say. I understand how people–driven by desperation and generations of pain–develop the kinds of feelings they have and I think it is vitally important that people see this. PLease reconsider your decision in not submitting anything further to this site. You will be sorely missed.

  30. #30 by Arabia-Felix on December 8, 2009 - 5:39 pm

    Anonymous,

    I see the difficulty you are facing with the SAABI’AH.

    In Arabic language,the letter (S), ia pronounced two ways.

    Many English translators confuse the names of SAABI’AH, SABAEN,
    and SABBATEAN.

    Your search is related to the SAABI’AH.

    Saabi’ah is mentioned in the Qur’an as MONOTHEISTS.

    The verse talking about them in the Qur’an says that ->

    -Verily,Those who believe in the ONES of God, Those who are JEWENIZED,and the CHRISTIANIZED,and the SAABI’AH;and whomsoever believed in GOD the the last day,and worked RIGHTEOUSNESS,on them
    shall be no fear,nor shall they grieve.

    Note: When the Qur’an is talking about Jews and Christians, it
    is meant By the real BEEF and POTATOES, the Original Jews and Christians.

    Back to the Subject; the SAABI’AH were considered by the Qur’an as MONOTHEISTS.

    They live in modern IRAQ, their number is about 100.000.

    Their origin is disputed, some say they are originally from GREECE. More scholarly researches say that they are reminents of the original followers of the father Abrahim (pbuh).

    The SABBATEANS are completely different creed, they are the followers of SABBATEI TSVEI.

    Many of the Kabbalists, Satanist sabbateans took advantage of the
    honour given to the SAABI’AH in Islam, so they hid behind the SAABI’AH, imposing to be of them,when they are NOT.

    The third one is SABIAN, from the KINGDOM of SABA’, in ancient
    Yemen, headed by Queen BILQAYS, later wife of King Solomon.

    This Kingdom was a plothyistic, SON worshipping.

    If you go to Yemen, you will find the Temple Son where they worshipped. Kingdom of 500 ministers it was called.

    Her reign reached to the other side of the red sea, to Ethiopia’s
    highlands, and East Africa’s coast, Somalia all the way to ZANZIBAR.

    Some Yemeni Tribes are descendents of the Bilqays’s Son with King Solomon, so were the Ruling class of Christian Ethiopia.

  31. #31 by Arabia-Felix on December 8, 2009 - 5:43 pm

    Continued from the first massage to anonymous.

    Let me correct.. Those who believe in the ONENESS of God…

    Sorry i am translating the verse myself,from Arabic ,with my limited English.

    Perhaps KENKEN can do a better job in translating the Verse.

  32. #32 by Arabia-Felix on December 8, 2009 - 5:59 pm

    To Anonymous:

    Your second search was concerning the YAZIDIS.

    Yazids live in IRAQ as well, they are SATANISTS; in such a
    way that they DO NOT APOLOGISE about it.

    They worship SATAN, live.

    They have an argument for it, of course.

    Racially they are KURDS, mind you that overwhelming majority
    of the Kurds are Muslims.

    It is an ancient practice, i don’t want to repeat their argument
    justifying Satan Worship, but they do.

    Yazidis influenced many JEWS, who later started becoming just like them, with the practice of Kabbalah, sorcery and such.

    Seems Jews like to drift a lot, and now it is the Pagan practices
    of India and Tibet incorporated with Judaism.

  33. #33 by Arabia-Felix on December 8, 2009 - 6:18 pm

    By QUEEN BILQAYS, i mean what is refered to by the christians as
    QuEEN SHEBA.

    Sheba or SABA’ in ancient Hamiarite language(mother of the Arabic language), is the name of the VAST kingdom she reigned, all the way to East Africa.

    Her personal name was BILQAYS, a popular female name in Yemen ever since.

  34. #34 by Arabia-Felix on December 9, 2009 - 1:20 am

    Anonymous,

    As it relates to your search of Prophet Idris (Enoch), i am
    sorry to tell you that, i can’t help on that one other than
    the information you already have.

    He is mentioned in the Qur’an in a high regard.

    He wa also mentioned in the story of Al-MI’RAJ, of which
    happened in NO time, as in tie elapse.

    The Qur’an itself avoids details of stories, for example;
    that Moses was as BLACK as his mother and as Strong as a black man was mentioned in the Qur’an, but not in a story like,talking
    about RACE per se. No. That is not allowed in Islamic tradition.

    That he was Black can only be known, when the Qur’an mentiones
    that one of the Miracles he showed Pharoes was that HE PUT HIS HAND IN HIS POCKET , took it out and IT WAS BLACK.

    The listener can understand that, a white hand doesn’t turn white. Also he was strong by killing a man with punches.

    It is not allowed to question Race so much in Islam, and people
    over look those things.

    To come back to IDRIS (Enoch),i am sure you can find bits and
    pieces of his story in old Islamic literature, but not in the Qur’an itself.

    What matters in the Qur’an is, Monotheism FIRST and LAST.

  35. #35 by Arabia-Felix on December 9, 2009 - 1:22 am

    CORRECTION:

    It goes as this : That he put his hand in his pocket, took it out
    and it was WHITE.

  36. #36 by Arabia-Felix on December 9, 2009 - 1:48 am

    Anonyous,

    Check also tafsiir IBN KATHIR.

    He has something to say about ENOCH.

    Born in Babylon,later moved to Egypt.

    An inventor of sciences such as Math.

    A man of TRUTH is said of him in the Qur’an.

  37. #37 by Arabia-Felix on December 9, 2009 - 4:03 am

    I meant to write SUN,in place of SON,lol.

    They worshiped the SUN.

  38. #38 by Seeking Truth on December 9, 2009 - 5:06 am

    @anonymous

    Sabians are believed to be all monothists. Specifically, going back to place and time, it’s believed to be the Zoroastrians. Perhaps the first monothistic religion introducing the One God (The All Wise&Benevolent);the Life-After; Heaven-Hell; Judgement Day. Therefore, holding man responsible for his own deeds.

  39. #39 by Seeking Truth on December 9, 2009 - 5:12 am

    @Felix

    Sabbians are an off-shoot of Zoroastrians going back before Christ.

  40. #40 by Mahmoud El-Yousseph on December 9, 2009 - 5:24 am

    I enjoyed reading this beautiful story about the prophet Jesus Christ [pbuh]. Thanks to the author as well as Mark Glenn for the post. I think the moral lesson of this story is, that greed can be deadly and should be avoided at all cost.

    I have no clue why Mr. No Patience,Fr. John was troubled by this story?
    Obviously, his only reason was: it was written by a Muslim. That should be a source of pride and religious tolerance. I am truly ashamed of Fr. John for resorting to ethnic and religious slurs. Such trash talk doesn’t belong on this respectable site.

    I am proud of Mark Glenn for taking this bigot to task and challenging his bigotry. This man denouncing Muslims for what happened @ Fort Hood. Simply because the perpetrator was a Muslim. However, on May 11Th this year, another similar shooting took place at Camp Liberty in Iraq, where a US soldier killed 5 of his fellow comrade in arm. It was the highest single incident on record up until Fort Hood. Does this poster know the name or the religious identity of the shooter? Of course not, because he was not a Muslim. His name by the way was John Russell. Reason given for the shooting was stress and emotional out burst.

    The Mr. No Patience Fort John confound me even more when he stated, “The last time I looked, conversion to Islam is considered a foolish thing to do in the West….” That the most malicious lie I ever heard. Islam is considered the fastest growing religion in the world.

    Last Muslim holiday I went to prayer with my children to one of the local Mosque. Guess who was the Imam? A young local medical doctor, white convert, who did not have to change his name. And everybody call him brother JOHN. Incidental, the topic he choose for the congregation was “Muslim is a religion of moderation.” Extremism should be identified,exposed, and rejected. He also spoke at length about the tragic event @ Fort
    Hood.

    I just wonder if Fr. John wrote on his site about Jesus Christ and his mother Mary [pbut] when they were mocked and degraded by Chanell 2 Israeli television station not long ago. If he did not, may be he would be interested to know that a Muslim group, Hezbollah of Lebanon was the first condemn it and called upon other nation to do the same and to lunch an infestation into these religious bigotry and intolerance.

    On a more lighter note, my 16 years old son Adam will never mention any prophet name without adding the phrase, peace be upon him,[pbuh], If I ever forget to do the same, he is sure there to remind me. Yes, that is what Muslims in America do at home. They teach their children respect and religious tolerance. Not hate or violence.

  41. #41 by Mahmoud El-Yousseph on December 9, 2009 - 5:51 am

    Arabia- Felix wrote:

    <<>>

    Hey Felix from Arabia, thanks for posting the correction about the actual color of Moses[pbuh] hand when he took it out of his pocket.
    I beg to differ with you that that the Quran never identified him as a black or white. Many who lived in the Middle East during that time have ligth to dark skin. Just like today. In oder words, if his hand turned white after he pulled it out of his pocket, that does not necessarily mean he was black. He could have been brown skinned.

    You may wanted to double check. If you find the “sura”, the verse in the Quran that states that, please do share it with the rest of us. Otherwise, thanks for your explaining Islam to the rest of the group on this site.

  42. #42 by Arabia-Felix on December 10, 2009 - 12:55 pm

    He he Mohamed,

    So you think his hand could have been brown?

    What kind of brown??

    A light-brown hand turning white is not tantalizing,is it??

    It wouldn’t be either something that contrast to the maximum,
    to the extent that it is defined as one of his miracles in the Quran, would it??.

    The Verse talks about how he put his hand in his pocket,and turned white…. Baydaa’ li-naadiriin; that is how it defines
    in Arabic.

    So what seems Baydaa’ li-naadiriin afterwards wasn’t Baydaa’ or
    white to begin with.

    So mohamed, you wanted him to be your colour huh??

    HA HA HAA.

    He was the colour of his Nubian mother.

    Truth seeker,

    Saabi’ah are different than Zoroastrians.

    Completely different.

    Zoroastrian could have had a Monotheistic beggining, but they haven’t been Monotheists for so long.

  43. #43 by Arabia-Felix on December 10, 2009 - 1:11 pm

    Dear Mohamed,

    The features of the peoples of middle east of yesterday is different than today, particularly the JEWS.

    Peoples of Middle east after Islam is shaped differently.

    Turks, Kurds, Albanians, Chechnians etc,etc had intermingled
    with the rest.

    If you go to the Arabian peninsula, the tribes that protected itself from intermingling with the rest look differently than
    Palestinians,lebanese, syrians and rest.

    They kinda look like Osama Bin laden when they are light skined.

    JEWS, the original, AUTHENTIC jews,look nothing like what you assume.

    The Solomonic Jews of Yemen look like the Jews of Ethiopia, with little diference, that when they are not MIXED with other races.

    Go to google and write OPERATION CARPET MAGIC, see how the original real Yemenite jews looked like BEFORE they were EUGENICISED in Israel.

    The Yemenite jew ,who looks lighter in Yemen of today is the MIXED jew and other races.

    You would be suprised Mohamoud.

  44. #44 by Arabia-Felix on December 10, 2009 - 2:44 pm

    BTW, speaking of Osama Bin Ladin, why is it that after 8 years of
    shying away his name, all of a sudden politicians of variety
    of western countries are talking about the naccessity to capture
    him at the same time??

    Anyone has a clue to that?!.

    His Son Omar,the 21 year old play boy, the one who married a 50 year old Britsh woman said that his father is long dead, but they have a “clone” of him!!!!!!!!!!.

    Wether he means clone the real clone or something else i don’t know.

    Mohamed,

    So it is True what they say, that when Arab Peninsula guys are young,they love older women!!.

    At least Prophet Mohamed(pbuh) was 24-25 when he married a woman about 41-42.

    This Omar Bin laden guy broke the record.

  45. #45 by Seeking Truth on December 10, 2009 - 4:51 pm

    Felix,

    How the hell do you make the absurd statement that “Zoroastrians has a monothistic beginning but are no longer that. Where the hell do you come up with crap like that. Prove it before spreading your venomous hateful crap.

    You be better off take a break and stop posting your nonsense.

  46. #46 by Arabia-Felix on December 10, 2009 - 7:44 pm

    Truth seeker,

    My intention was to CORRECT your insinuation that Saabi’ah
    is an “off shoot”,-( don’t like that phrase btw, not glamorous)
    of Zoroastrian.

    I was not interested about Zoroastrian at all.

    But if you want to know, though you ask so rudely without challenge from your side; You must know that Zoroastrian religion
    is not Monothious, in itself.

    It has different branches.

    I am familiar with the one practiced in HORMOZ passage, the Omani side.Tiny minority ZOAS community live there.

    FIRE is an intermediary between them and God.

    Also they know the GOOD GOD, and the another being trying to
    destroy that good.

    That shows not only an intermediery between them and God, but also a GOD that is facing a challenge from another power.

    In Islamic point of view, if you have a God that is challenged by another being, you are not a Monotheist.

    Anyhow, i was not interested t discus Zoas, but you Truth seeker are good DIVERTING subjects.

    My answers were directed at Saabi’ah, not into what you meddled
    with.

  47. #47 by robertvnik on December 10, 2009 - 9:40 pm

    A story about Jesus I have never read before.
    Bible believing christians will always struggle with Islamic versions of bible stories. For a start off christians consider Jesus Christ as the one and only who died for us and who God raised from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every titly that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet. Also to be given the name which is above all names so that at the name of Jesus(dont ask me what his real heavenly name is)every knee will bow . Muslims who deny this yet still accept Jesus Christ as a great prophet of God have missed much of the whole point of christianity.
    Jalids point is correct that it wasn’t (or isn’t) muslims doing all the killing. But there are plenty of examples of christians being persecuted by muslims. ‘Voice of the Martyrs’ founded by Richard Wurmbrant(spelt something like that) has given plenty of stories over the years of christians suffering severely at the hands of muslims especially if a muslim decides to convert to christianity. In saudi Arabia christianity is despised officially and life is tough for those who commit such an offense as conversion to christianity. And who enacted the holocaust of the armenian death march narly one hundred years ago?–Muslims. Yes I know a few so called christian Armenians were involved in some traitorous way with the enemy but those muslims used it to kill every christian they could find. Dont say it was the jews fault- muslims(so called) did the killing. Just as christain(so called) soldiers in Afganastan or Iraq are doing their shameful deeds there.
    Wow I reckon any one of us could look at our own race or religion and think of a few things we are ashamed to be connected with. Maybe Fr John is one of the nice guys.

  48. #48 by jgalindes on December 11, 2009 - 10:07 am

    The Armenian Genocide was a 100% Jewish accomplishment,according to Christopher Jon Bjerknes:

    http://www.jewishracism.com/JewishGenocide.htm

    There,you may find his book,”The Jewish Genocide of Armenian Christians” as a free download.

    According to Jewish rabbinic ‘wisdom'(Kabbala),Armenians were/are ‘Amalek’ and ‘should have to be utterly destroyed’.

  49. #49 by Seeking Truth on December 11, 2009 - 4:20 pm

    Felix,

    The more you write the more you display your ignorance.

    Now, you claim that Zoroastrians have FIRE as in-between man and God??

    FYI, Fire is only a symbol representing God’s love and light upon the universe. That’s really all it is; nothing more and nothing less. They keep one always burning in their temple just the same way Moslems and Christians may burn candles.

  50. #50 by Seeking Truth on December 11, 2009 - 4:26 pm

    @robertvnik

    Your religious comments aside; The Armenian genocide/Holocaust was done by the “Young Turks”. They were the Sabatti Jews who had been thrown out of Spain in 1492, and Othomans gave them refuge. That’s way the Jewish-Western institutions refuse to even call it Holocaust. Worse yet that to this day, all the Turks are blamed for it.

  51. #51 by Seeking Truth on December 11, 2009 - 4:28 pm

    Armenian genocide is the exact copy of what the Bolsheviks did in Russia to the Christians.

  52. #52 by Arabia-Felix on December 11, 2009 - 4:53 pm

    Seeking Truth,

    No Muslim lights a candle, except when the electricity goes out.

    This is exactly why i don’t like to debate with you on issues of
    theology.

    My dear friend, stop muddying the debate and try to acquire knowledge first of what you are trying to refute.

    Forget about fires, the MAIN point you should have taken on was
    the part where GOOD GOD is challenged.

    That is the heart of the matter, and you didn’t.

    Robertvink,

    Sorry, we are not going to hate Christians of the world for
    the wars of Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere.

    God willing, they will wake up to the Satan that is using them,
    and, once and for all the world will GET RID of those who
    were conducting INDUSTRIAL KILLING for a century now; starting
    with European christians killing other European christians in
    2 genocidal wars.

    Once and for all, the world will be free of them,
    sooner than later.

  53. #53 by jgalindes on December 15, 2009 - 2:01 pm

    From the “Catholic pimp” to “Fr.John”

    The Heresy of racism

    Want to add a useful word to your vocabulary? The term phyletism from phili: race or tribe was coined at the Holy and Great pan-Orthodox pan-Orthodox Synod that met in Istanbul (formerly Constantinople) in 1872.
    The meeting was prompted by the creation of a separate bishopric by the Bulgarian community of Istanbul for parishes only open to Bulgarians. It was the first time in Church history that a separate diocese was established based on ethnic identity rather than principles of Orthodoxy and territory.
    Here is the Synod’s official condemnation of ecclesiastical racism, or “ethno-phyletism,” as well as its theological argumentation. It was issued on the 10th of August 1872.

    We renounce, censure and condemn racism, that is racial discrimination, ethnic feuds, hatreds and dissensions within the Church of Christ, as contrary to the teaching of the Gospel and the holy canons of our blessed fathers which “support the holy Church and the entire Christian world, embellish it and lead it to divine godliness.”

    A section of the report drawn up by the special commission of the pan-Orthodox Synod of Constantinople in 1872 reviewed the general principles which guided the Synod in its condemnation.

    The question of what basis racism that is discriminating on the basis of different racial origins and language and the claiming or exercising of exclusive rights by persons or groups of persons exclusively of one country or group can have in secular states lies beyond the scope of our inquiry.
    But in the Christian Church, which is a spiritual communion, predestined by its Leader and Founder to contain all nations in one brotherhood in Christ, racism is alien and quite unthinkable.
    Indeed, if it is taken to mean the formation of special racial churches, each accepting all the members of its particular race, excluding all aliens and governed exclusively by pastors of its own race, as its adherents demand, racism is unheard of and unprecedented.

    All the Christian churches founded in the early years of the faith were local and contained the Christians of a specific town or a specific locality, without racial distinction. They were thus usually named after the town or the country, not after the ethnic origin of their people.

    The Jerusalem Church consisted of Jews and proselytes from various nations. The Churches of Antioch, Alexandria, Ephesus, Rome and all the others were composed of Jews but mainly of gentiles. Each of these churches formed within itself an integral and indivisible whole. Each recognized as its Apostles the Apostles of Christ, who were all Jews. Each had a bishop installed by these Apostles without any racial discrimination: this is evident in the account of the founding of the first Churches of God….

    The same system of establishing churches by locality prevails even after the Apostolic period, in the provincial or diocesan churches which were marked out on the basis of the political organization then prevailing, or of other historical reasons. The congregation of the faithful of each of these churches consisted of Christians of every race and tongue….

    Paradoxically, the Church of Greece, Russia, Serbia, Moldavia and so on, or less properly the Russian Church, Greek Church, etc., mean autocephalous or semi-independent churches within autonomous or semi-independent dominions, with fixed boundaries identical with those of the secular dominions, outside which they have no ecclesiastical jurisdiction.
    They were composed not on ethnic grounds, but because of a particular situation, and do not consist entirely of one race or tongue. The Orthodox Church has never known racially-based churches… to coexist within the same parish, town or country…

    If we examine those canons on which the Church’s government is constructed, we find nowhere in them any trace of racism. … Similarly, the canons of the local churches, when considering the formation, union or division of ecclesiastical groupings, put forward political reasons or ecclesiastical needs, never racial claims…. From all this, it is quite clear that racism finds no recognition in the government and sacred legislation of the Church.

    But the racial principle also undermines the sacred governmental system of the Church…

    In a racially organized church, the church of the local diocese has no area proper to itself, but the ethnic jurisdictions of the supreme ecclesiastical authorities are extended or restricted depending on the ebb and flow of peoples constantly being moved or migrating in groups or individually…
    If the racial principle is followed, no diocesan or patriarchal church, no provincial or metropolitan church, no episcopal church, not even a simple parish, whether it be the church of a village, small town or a suburb, can exist with its own proper place or area, containing within it all those of one faith. Is not Christ thus divided, as He was once among the Corinthians, by those who say: “I am for Paul, I am for Apollo, I am for Cephas” (1 Cor. 1:12)? …

    No Ecumenical Council would find it right or in the interests of Christianity as a whole to admit an ecclesiastical reform [whose membership was based on ethnic identity] to serve the ephemeral idiosyncrasies of human passions and base concerns, because, apart from overthrowing the legislative achievements of so many senior Ecumenical Councils, it implies other destructive results, both manifest and potential:

    First of all, it introduces a Judaic exclusiveness, whereby the idea of the race is seen a sine qua non of a Christian, particularly in the hierarchical structure. Every non-Greek, for instance, will thus be legally excluded from what will be called the Greek Church and hierarchy, every non-Bulgarian from the Bulgarian Church, and so on. As a Jew, St. Paul, the Apostle of the Gentiles, could only have been a pastor in one nation, the Jewish. Similarly, Saints Cyril and Methodius, being of Greek origin, would not have been accepted among the Slavs. What a loss this would have entailed for the Church! …

    Thus the sacred and divine are rendered entirely human, secular interest is placed above spiritual and religious concerns, with each of the racial churches looking after its own. The doctrine of faith in “one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church” receives a mortal blow. If all this occurs, as indeed it has, racism is in open dispute and contradiction with the spirit and teaching of Christ.

    Reprinted from For the Peace from Above: an Orthodox Resource Book on War, Peace and Nationalism, edited by Hildo Bos and Jim Forest (Syndesmos, 1999).

    http://incommunion.org/?p=263

  54. #54 by Andrew O'Gorman on May 26, 2012 - 3:14 am

    What a wonderful parable and teaching of the holy prophet Jesus .
    I am Christian and have never read such a powerful testament on the nature of greed .
    Thank you very much for sharing .
    Shalom , God bless and praise Allah !

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