Tonight’s program–the 30th anniversary of Israel’s butchery at Sabra & Shatilla, as well as an exploration of the question–IF the Jews are ‘God’s Chosen People, and if this ‘God’ was willing to bring about so many miracles in the Old Testament to bring them into the ‘Promised Land’, then where are these ‘miracles’ today’?
Also, a discussion of the wider implications of the recent video disrespecting Mohammed, who was behind it and where it is likely to go–WWIII.
THANK YOU FOR ASSISTING WITH THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH PRODUCING THIS PROGRAM
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#1 by Nick on September 18, 2012 - 4:54 am
Shocking… Jones caught off guard… Original Title
Shocking 911 Mossad Connection then chaged to Inside Job… “Jones covering his ass”
Jews Fighting Jews… TUT what’s your take on this… “Yes he believes in the Holahoax” but what about the rest of it… THIS IS REALLY HARD HITTING…
#2 by bostonblah on September 18, 2012 - 5:12 am
i dont remember when this show was but if anyone does please let me know
anyway someone made this great video with this clip of the show , that i think perfectly demonstrates what is currently happening
#3 by Brian Hildebran on September 18, 2012 - 5:27 am
They’re not “God’s Chosen!” Nuff said.
#4 by bostonblah on September 18, 2012 - 5:50 am
here is an interesting post from grizzom.blogspot
ALEX ?!?! “Shocking 9/11 Mossad Connection Revealed!”
Uncle “Be Be” is going to spank AJ’s pee pee when he hears about this.
Look how uncomfortable fatboy is when the elephant in the room is mentioned “Ah, Ah, I’m in way over my head”, “Ah, Ah, this is super deep history” Move along people, nothin to see here !!! Lol
NOTE: Fat boy changed the title to “Insider: U.S. Ambassador Killing an Inside Job!”
#5 by MJ on September 18, 2012 - 2:11 pm
Still listening to the program, but a quick note to Patty about her comment regarding Muslims.
Patty, the vast majority of the protests are peaceful thankfully and the lamentable violence is highlighted by mainstream media. It makes the news.
Second The OT accounts about the Prophets with their foolish and disgusting stories are different from our accounts of the Prophets who were Godly men to be followed. The distortions are there in the OT to stop the people from using these men as examples.
Here is a quick note on that:
“…….. belief in the soundness of the distorted Torah that they have in front of them today, which contains insults against God, describing Him as having shortcomings, and insults against the Prophets and Messengers, saying things that one can hardly dare utter, but we mention them in order to highlight the abhorrent nature of the kufr (disbelief) that they follow. They describe God as weeping with regret for the Flood which drowned the people of Noah, until His eyes became sore, and the angels came to visit Him – exalted be He far above that.
They describe Lot (peace be upon him) as committing incest with his two daughters, and Noah as drinking wine until he became drunk and his ‘awrah (nakedness) became visible. And there are even more foolish stories than that. ”
Patty our accounts about the Prophets of God are noble, therefore not like the OT.
Third, I sincerely hope that you do not lose your feelings of humanity for those such as the Palestinians or Iraqis of Afghanis. Let us not mix the issues up, oppression is to be fought and hated and striven against despite the shortcomings of all.
Having said that please remember what Emerson said about mobs:
““The mob is man voluntarily descending to the nature of the beast. Its fit hour of activity is night. Its actions are insane like its whole constitution. It persecutes a principle; it would whip a right; it would tar and feather justice, by inflicting fire and outrage upon the houses and persons of those who have these. It resembles the prank of boys, who run with fire-engines to put out the ruddy aurora streaming to the stars.”
Once upon a time, Like Dana and Max I used to see things from a narrower perspective and I used to tell my family that I did not have any Christian friends based on Christian Zionist stances, Us policy etc. I am glad that I am more open to seeing the true Christians from the fake now and I hope I never lose this sense of humanity again.
Let us not regress but correct the wrongs, speak out about them and seek to fix them. Peace
#6 by bostonblah on September 18, 2012 - 4:13 pm
more sabotage at iran nuclear sites, at fordo
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4282169,00.html
#7 by Ingrid B on September 18, 2012 - 4:27 pm
A message to Patti, maybe you should try walking a mile in the shoes of a muslim.. The beauty of Islam, is their faith, this is what the Jews, or should I say supremacist Jews, and their cult followers, fear. Those who indulge in violence, are not true muslims.. I believe the goodness of Islam, will triumph over evil..
I have been seeing an advert on TV for a better broadband. The figure kind of reminds me of my son-in-law. Yesterday, I suddenly listened to the words of the accompanying song, which say, “How can you save the world, if nothing gets through, to you?” and I thought of the guys on TUT..
#8 by Ingrid B on September 18, 2012 - 4:49 pm
yes, MJ, we have to help one another, to find light in the darkness..
#9 by NAeem on September 18, 2012 - 5:18 pm
PATTY – Im sorry patty but you show your own ignorance tell me what do you expect after 2 decades of endless bombing with over 3 million dead Iraqi’s and afghans and you want them to BOW to you? I suggest you learn what ISLAM says about the OT it agree’s their was TORAH but the current torah has been added and subtracted and yes the GOD of israel is the same god ELAH as all of 3 abrahamic religions believe but bani Israel’s haughtiness and arrogance has created god in their own image. Regarding muslim’s reactions its simple look at christinaity 200 years ago in the west ad NOW look at it you have lesbian homosexual priests and daily attacks against how backward chrsitianity is. Its not the muslims who can’t critique they just don’t want ppl to cause confusion and they will not allow the blasphemy of the beloved prophet pbuh because if they it to happen next time it will be MUCH MUCH worser, btw no one is allowed to blaspheme against any of the prophets of god pbut.
#10 by Vickie Jacobs on September 18, 2012 - 7:06 pm
Mark is right about about the passion of the Arab World and about the Christians being blamed by the Jews for stirring up much. But, Not the Zionist christians. They(Zionist christians) will be blaming the christians who come out of their slumber of sleep…Matthew 9:24.
They’ve been charmed (Psalms 58:5) to sleep by soothsayers(Micah 5:12) such as John Hagee.
These Multitudes still asleep WILL have a line to cross (Lamentations 2:8,14) whether to stay with the evil false doctrines or choose to go against it…Jeremiah 8:3.
This perplexity really has not carnal solution to this problem it seems. Only to try to understand that people like John Hagee is putting for false information.
John Hagee (pg 41 JERUSALEM COUNTDOWN)
“The name Allah came from an Arabic word that had to do with the worship of the moon god in pre-Islamic Arabia.” (no references here John)
One more thing. America now has these bomb scares going through the heartland. From Austin, Texas up to Fargo, North Dakota. Very interesting.
#11 by mystic444 on September 18, 2012 - 7:41 pm
I was going to write a lengthy comment in response to Patti’s statements (with which Mark said he agreed 100%); but toward the end of the broadcast Mark and another caller were able to clarify the Muslim position somewhat. Thanks also to MJ and NAeem for adding to the clarification.
It seems to me there are a couple of extremes in misunderstanding of Islam’s position regarding the Bible. I was raised as a fundamentalist Christian with extreme ignorance of Islam. I was told that Islam believes that the Jews got things backwards. Whereas the Jews believe that God chose Isaac and rejected Ishmael, the Muslims believe that God chose Ishmael and rejected Isaac. Therefore, Muslims repudiate all of the Jewish prophets, including Jesus Christ. (I can imagine Jonathan Azaziah and Sami Ibrahim rolling their eyes at the stupidity of such a belief –
). It was with a pleasant shock that I discovered how wrongheaded such an idea is almost 3 years ago when I started ‘investigating’ Islam as a reaction to one of those viral anti-Muslim e-mails that seem to circulate forever on the Internet.
On the other hand, there are others – like Patti – who are much better informed about what the Qur’an teaches. They know that Islam believes that both Isaac and Ishmael were ‘chosen’ by God as prophets, and that the Hebrew prophets such as Moses, David, Solomon, Jonah, etc., and including John ‘the Baptist’ and Jesus Christ (peace be with them all) were indeed genuine prophets of the One God. However, they make the mistake of thinking that because Islam accepts all of the prophets, it must mean that Islam accepts the Bible in its entirety as we have it today. Therefore, Patti lamented that Muslims don’t seem to be able to ‘criticize’ Muhammad (peace be with him and his family) and the Qur’an and reject the falsehoods of the Bible. This, too, is of course a misunderstanding of Islam as others have pointed out.
Interestingly, the genuinely Islamic views concerning the Bible are much the same as a first century A.D. Christian bishop in Rome claimed that the apostle Peter proclaimed! A couple of writings (or actually, probably just 2 versions of the same writing) called ‘Homilies’ and ‘Recognitions’ are attributed to Clement of Rome – whom some people think may be the Clement mentioned by the apostle Paul in Philippians 4:3. In these writings, Peter is said to have spoken of the necessity of recognizing the ‘falsehoods of the Scriptures’. I’ll close this comment with a few quotations from those writings which I believe fairly represent the view of Islam also. (They’re taken from the ‘Homilies of Clement).
“For the Scriptures have had joined to them many falsehoods against God on this account. The prophet Moses having by the order of God delivered the law, with the explanations, to certain chosen men, some seventy in number, in order that they also might instruct such of the people as chose, after a little the written law had added to it certain falsehoods contrary to the law of God, who made the heaven and the earth, and all things in them; the wicked one having dared to work this for some righteous purpose”(Chapter, or ’book’ 2, section 38).
“Then Peter said: “If, therefore, some of the Scriptures are true and some false, with good reason said our Master, ‘Be ye good money-changers’, [a good money changer would be able to distinguish true coins from counterfeit ones - SGP] inasmuch as in the Scriptures there are some true sayings and some spurious. And to those who err by reason of the false scriptures He fitly showed the cause of their error, saying, ‘Ye do therefore err, not knowing the true things of the Scriptures; for this reason ye are ignorant also of the power of God’” (Chapter 2, section 51).
According to the ‘Peter’ of the Clementine Homilies, how should the lover of God respond to the ‘falsehoods’ of scripture? “And this took place in reason and judgment, that those might be convicted who should dare to listen to the things written against God, and those who, through love towards Him, should not only disbelieve the things spoken against Him, but should not even endure to hear them at all, even if they should happen to be true, judging it much safer to incur danger with respect to religious faith, than to live with an evil conscience on account of blasphemous words” (Chapter 2, section 38).
#12 by Adalberto Erazo Jr. on September 19, 2012 - 1:56 am
I agree with Ingrid,MJ,Naeem, and Mystic444
Excellent comments.
What do all these people I have listed have in common:
Michael Hart
James Gavin
Jules Masserman
Diwan Chand Sharma
John William Draper
George Bernard Shaw
Thomas Carlyle
Mahatma Gandhi
R. Bosworth Smith
They are all non-Muslims who recognized the greatness of Mohammed(pbuh). I too recognize his greatness and Islam is a beautiful religion that will survive and it has been surviving for 1400 years ever since the jews declared war upon Islam back when it was in it’s infancy.
Ever since mass murderer and war criminal George Bush declared in his genocidal speech a crusade against Islam immediately after 9/11, I feared for the Muslims and worried for them ever since even though I am not a Muslim. I didn’t buy into the demonization of Muslims but every time I heard Islamophobic comments on tv, radio or anywhere else I knew they were lies because every time I heard or saw them it tore at my heart even though I am not a Muslim.
Even though I am a Christian I recognize Mohammed to be a great man and the last prophet sent by God to the rest of humanity.
“And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud. (82) When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messengers, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses. (83) How should we not believe in Allah and that which hath come unto us of the Truth. And (how should we not) hope that our Lord will bring us in along with righteous folk? (84) Allah hath rewarded them for that their saying – Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the reward of the good.”
Surah Al Maeda
This is a short 7 minute video of what the above mentioned people had to say.
The Greatest Man That Ever Lived
#13 by Adalberto Erazo Jr. on September 19, 2012 - 2:01 am
Not sure whats going on. In the past I remember when I posted videos the video would show up on the post but now it’s only a link. ?????
#14 by Mustafa Shaban on September 19, 2012 - 4:30 am
Excellent show!
And I really appreciate all the comments responding to Patty’s misunderstanding! Its important to make things clear in regards to Islam!
#15 by Anwar on September 19, 2012 - 7:43 am
Hi, I like the show, but your American causasian petticoat is showing in this show. The hysteria of Muslims is indeed perhaps manipulated by Jews, but remember, these people have been conquered for centuries now. Their schools and their universities are all saturated with Salafists and diluted education. Give them a break. After all, instead of fighting from their armchairs and from behind the safety of a microphone, it is Muslims that are fighting Zionism with the most basic forms of weapons, including stones every single day. They get bombed, burnt and poisoned every day. Have a bit of consideration for that. The process of developing a well coordinated, smart and calculating Muslim leadership is underway. It takes time though. I assure you though, that we are building that smart leadership you’re referring to, under the leadership of Iran and Hezbollah.
#16 by Brian Hildebran on September 19, 2012 - 11:28 am
falsehoods’ of scripture?
Please give examples of what you believe to be false! Its one thing to say this or that is false but another to actually ‘prove” it. Simple by saying Islam says its false according to Muhammed and the Quran DOES NOT make it so. The OT and NT are interwoven with such intricacy that only a fool would say otherwise. Beginning with Adam to the Last Adam Christ. There was a “mystery” hidden within the OT of how the Non-Jews would enjoy salvation with Israel and exactly how Christ would accomplish that. (Not speaking of Israel today) There are themes that run through the OT such as the High Priest. Adam was the 1st High Priest, in the Garden temple. Adam was a priest for/to the Nations. Aaron was the next High Priest in the Tabernacle and when Israel built the Temple, they were to also be Priests for/to the Nations. However, instead of doing so they developed into a Supremacist attitude towards the Nations. Then Jesus Christ came and as High Priest for all “true” Christians and Christians are to be Priests for/to the Nations to “proclaim the excellencies of Yahweh/Christ.” For Christians, Muhammed is to us meaningless, because it all starts and ends with Christ. We don’t need another Prophet, Priest, or King.
As to Islam’s stories on the “prophets” and OT Patriarchs, the OT records their flaws and doesn’t shy away from them. The OT doesn’t sugar-coat evil and reveals that these Prophets and Patriarchs were FLAWED just like every other human being. The Apostles made reference over and over that the “righteous” example of the Patriarchs and Prophets were for their benefit. Simply because the Quran doesn’t state a “prophets” flaws doesn’t mean it must be true that they had none or that because the OT records these flaws that it is any less true.The Prophets and Patriarchs,excepting Jesus Christ, were all sinners and sinned.
And as for Islam, we have nothing more than Muhammed’s word that he recieved “revelation” from God. Nothing he said has been verified by Archaelogical data or any parchments that date before 200BC. (actually there are none of the (complete) Quran that date before 850ad. There is one that is claimed to be before then but noone outside of Islam has studied it) Islam has as its main basis
that it is an “alleged” CORRECTION of the OT Torah and Prophets. As well as the New Testament as it doesn’t agree that Jesus was Yahweh.
I ask any Muslim to show me when the OT was corrupted, and how do you know? Was it corrupted before Christ came in the 1st century? What proof do you offer? Stop with the Allegations and SHOW ME!
My email is briansh38@charter.net.
No more refering me to websites, give specific articles or explain it yourself. Thanks.
#17 by MJ on September 19, 2012 - 12:47 pm
TQ for all the interesting comments. @Adalberto Erazo Jr seems like you have done much homework on Islam. I consider you one of the defenders. God willing if my prayers/deeds go through and get answered I will have tea with you and some of the others in TUT in Jannah/paradise if Allah wills.
Ingrid thank you for always keeping an open mind and an open heart. It seems that many consider us to be monolithic and without diversity.
Our Malay brothers were able to fight back against globalization and are a continued example of how to deal with flight capital. Many countries around the world are affected by the economic woes of the times including the ones many of you are living in. I consider them a very rational part of the Muslim nation.
Let us drop the stereotyping and remember we all came from our mum’s tummy one at a time.
Mystic 444 Masha’Allah JK for the knowledge.
#18 by Adalberto Erazo Jr. on September 19, 2012 - 3:21 pm
@ MJ
I am honored and I too hope to meet you as well as brother Basheer,Ingrid, and some others as well in Jannah.
#19 by mystic444 on September 19, 2012 - 4:47 pm
@ Brian HIldebran (#16) – I doubt that Mark intends for the comments section to get involved in arguments proving or disproving Biblical errors. To do so would miss the point of my comment, and the comments of others in response to Patti’s statement.
We were responding to Patti, who herself believes that there are an awful lot of terrible things promoted in the Hebrew Scriptures. She at least seemed to be under the misapprehension that Muslims were not able to criticize those evils in the Bible because Muhammad (peace be to him and his family) and the Qur’an recognize the Hebrew prophets as genuine, and speak of the Scriptures which were given before the Qur’an. We are simply saying that Patti is mistaken in her conclusion, inasmuch as Muslims are very critical of much that is in the Bible.
Whether or not you personally agree with us in that criticism is irrelevant. Nevertheless I will mention that I wrote a couple of articles, about 3 years ago, on my blog showing a few errors and contradictions in the Bible. These articles were written just a few months prior to the time when I began my ‘investigation’ of Islam; but they represented the development of my thought over the previous 22 or 23 years. You may refer to them, if you wish, at http://mystic444.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/bible-errors/ and http://mystic444.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/bible-absurdities-and-contradictions/ .
The things that Muslims and others here at The Ugly Truth are more concerned with, though, are the terrible stories about some of God’s prophets and the things the Old Testament attribute to God (such as commands to the Israelites to wipe out every living thing when they fought against people). And these are the kinds of things that Peter referred to as ‘falsehoods of the Scriptures’. (Or at least, what Peter is reported to have said by someone in the late first century A.D. – a disciple of Peter named Clement, who became ‘bishop’ in the church at Rome during that late first century A.D.). We believe, with Peter, that anyone who can believe such things about God and His prophets is someone who is estranged in heart from the One God.
We don’t believe that Abraham lied (or told a half truth) about his wife Sarah out of fear for his life. Muslims in general, I believe, will refuse to believe that David committed adultery with Bathsheba.
Other examples of blatant errors in the Old Testament are: the assertion that Abraham was going to sacrifice his ONLY son, yet claiming that son was Isaac. Isaac was at no time in any sense Abraham’s ONLY son. Ishmael, though, was Abraham’s firstborn son, and therefore his ONLY son until Isaac was born. The Qur’an is correct in saying that it was Ishmael whom Abraham believed God wanted him to sacrifice due to a DREAM he had.
Another question is how old was Ishmael in Genesis 21 when God told Abraham to listen to Sarah and cast out Hagar and Ishmael? According to that chapter, Ishmael is presented as a very young child carried – or led by the hand – by Hagar, and young enough that Hagar was able to lay him under a bush and then pick him up again. However Genesis 17 says that Ishmael was 13 years old when he was circumcised. Isaac was born a year later, when Ishmael was 14. Then it was 2 or 3 years later when Isaac was weaned that Hagar and Ishmael were kicked out of the house. Therefore, Ishmael was around 16 or 17 years old. I’m quite sure Hagar was not carrying a 16 year old young man in her arms, leading him by the hand, or laying him under a bush and then picking him up again.
These things we consider to be obvious errors and discrepancies in the Bible. Actually there are just too many to mention in a comment. These are sufficient, though, to show that the Bible as we have it is a very flawed book.
Don’t expect me to continue carrying on an argument about it though; and I expect others will feel the same way. If you disagree with our viewpoint, that’s fine; but we’ll continue, I’m sure, to disagree with your viewpoint also. (Actually, in my blog, I’m more concerned these days to show the agreements between the Bible and the Qur’an than the disagreements.)
#20 by Ingrid B on September 19, 2012 - 6:03 pm
MJ, Adalberto, Patti, and all, tea in Jannah sounds good, but where is it? and how do I get there?
#21 by Mustafa Shaban on September 20, 2012 - 12:27 am
@Ingrid: By being the best person you can be! But this world is also important guyz! So I hope we can meet up here as well!
#22 by Brian Hildebran on September 20, 2012 - 7:25 am
@mystic444..Thanks for the explanation, but your take on Ishmael and Hagar doesn’t say anything about her carrying Ishmael. The term ‘lift him up” could be taken 2 different ways. He lifted him physically off the ground, or most likely the same way its used as Hagar “lifting up” her voice. Such as meaning that she helped him up and supported/guided him. Most see it as a “figure of speech” and not a “literal, physical” action. There are many figures of speech contained in Scripture that are lost on us today because we didn’t live at that time. It was written in the common language to those whom it was written to/for, to be understood by them in a particular point(s) in History. It meant something to them 1st and foremost!
Anyways, I’ll look at your blog. No more comments coming from me on this.
#23 by Ingrid B on September 20, 2012 - 8:05 am
@ Mustafa Shaban, yes, mint tea in Marrakech?
#24 by lolathecur on September 20, 2012 - 11:08 am
in order to understand the truth in the scripture you must look up and understand the meanings of these words. they will be found in Strongs bible dictionary with corresponding verses where they are used. get to studying now! here are the words: Yahakobe, Yhuwdiy, Yehoodawee, Ioudaismos, Idudaios, Dath, Yehhodeeth, Yahad. do not let liars decieve you..please consider this very important subject for future discussions on shows. Thank you jeff turner
#25 by MJ on September 20, 2012 - 12:18 pm
Brother Shaban is right of course and it would also be great if we could meet in this life
.
On a more serious note, The other part that is necessary is Worshiping 1 Lord who is neither male nor female and has no likeness.
Ingrid I’ll save you some tea!God willing and a good spot to drink it.
#26 by Ingrid B on September 20, 2012 - 4:35 pm
thanks MJ